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Scandal judgment of European Court of Human Rights against Turkey – The comments received.

Scandal judgment of 

European Court of Human Rights

against Turkey

The Comments Received

 

By Chris Elliott

Who has not read Ralph Kratzer’s leading article click here to the news published in the Hürriyet Daily News: . The news that  the European Court of Human Rights (ECHR) has just made a judgment against Turkey and as you said Ralph its a scandal but then that’s only yours and my opinion but what do other people think and say?

Your cyprusscene.com article has created a lot of interest with a Gavel hammerflood of comments being made on the article and we thought it best to reproduce them here for people to read and understand why there is such a disagreement over Turkey being seen as being the guilty party by taking the action they did in July 1974 to bring peace back to the island of Cyprus.

But then it’s for you the readers to consider the comments and make up your own mind as to whether justice has been seen to be done in respect of the right for Turkey to mount a peace operation to stop the bloodshed in Cyprus during 1974 when other gaurantor powers chose to do nothing but also that the Turkish Cypriots are still being penalised for this to this day and yet Cyprus through its association with the European Union is still seen as being the innocent party.

Sadly we have seen other disputes around the world and in many cases peoples of different religious views have learned to accept and set aside the horrors of the past and build a better future but here in the Cyprus Island will this ever be the case? Please read the following comments and you may be able to make up your own mind as to where the Cyprus Issue started and what chance there is of peace and harmony ever returning to this Jewel in the Mediterranean.

Scandal judgment of European Court of Human Rights  against Turkey

Sermen Erdogan    Sermen Erdogan

This scandalous decision will surely effect the peace process in Cyprus and the relationship of Greek and Turkish Cypriots. Thank you Ralph Kratzer for your analysis , it hit the nail on its head !!!!!

TFRsecretary (Ralph Kratzer)1-Porträt-Ralph sml

Thank you, Sermen. ! I am so angry and disappointed about all these hypocrites! It is so sad that this judgment came just now in the middle of the negotiation process!

Oxolobs

This is incredulous. They can’t be ignorant of the facts, can they; Or is this a political game?

Kyreniacommentator (Chris Elliott)

It seems they can do what they want oxolobs. Has the European Union or the ECHR taken Chris photo 2 3the time to learn the truth or are they still trying to compound one problem with another.

Reading the daily outpouring of rhetoric from politicians today, it pays to look back in time to try to learn the truth of what really happened and this is what Makarios said on the 19th July 1974 to the UN Council about the problems in Cyprus and who was at fault. Click here to read Makarios call for help to the UN

John Pearce

An appeal to the ECHR against this unjust and biased judgement. This is a deliberate derailment ploy. There must be a transcript of this judgement. A petition needs to be raised. TC President needs to raise the issue with the GC President and publish his response.

John Pearce

Just read http://www.echr.coe.int/Pages/home.aspx?p=home. = “In a judgment delivered on 10 May 2001 the Court found numerous violations of the Convention by Turkey, arising out of the military operations it had conducted in northern Cyprus in July and August 1974, the continuing division of the territory of Cyprus and the activities of the “Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus”. Regarding the issue of just satisfaction, the Court held that it was not ready for decision and adjourned its consideration. Still think protests should be made but when the final ECHR outcome is known.

John Pearce

Anyone know any links to the case transcript.

Jim KounnasJim Kounnas

Yes it’s definitely scandalous! It should have been 90 Billion Euros!

TFRsecretary (Ralph Kratzer)

Thank you for your unprejudiced comment, Jim Kounas. It seems you have not been i1-Porträt-Ralph smlnformed about the true history of Cyprus. Please browse our website and you will find something about!

Jim Kounnas

Not been informed by whom? The Turkish Ministry of Foreign Affairs perhaps? After reading the Jim Kounnasabove note by Ralph Kratzer, I need not “browse” your website. So there were thousands of TC’s murdered by the GC’s. This is an outright lie. He can name his source. No Turkish Cypriot has lost property in the Government controlled areas of the ROC. That is another lie. If you entertain writers like Ralph Kratzer, your website has no credibility whatsoever.

TFRsecretary (Ralph Kratzer)

Mr. Kounnas, one of the sources I have for the crimes to the TC´s are my own eyes, because1-Porträt-Ralph sml I saw the mass graves left behind by the EOKA in several villages in the Mesaoria as they retreated from the Turkish soldiers. Women, children and old men are lying there!!! And do you know the true story about Erenköy? click here You should know it! And just one example of the seizure of land: who owned the land on which the Larnaca Airport is now? GC´s or TC´s?

John Pearce

Further to my comment above this link needs reading:

http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/Pages/search.aspx#

Mr Kounas. It would be unfair to say you are ignorant of the facts since I suspect you were very young in 1963 and the truth has been withheld from you. Please search for it and pioneer for justice on both sides of the border. Were you unaware of the terms under which Cyprus was granted independence in 1960?

Lyndsay

As far as I am aware, the 30 million euro award for missing persons, is for all missing persons, as the committee is joint TC and GC. Again, as far as I am aware, Turkish speaking Cypriots can return to their properties, as they are all held in trust by a government department. T C properties in the South are not owned by Greek Cypriots. Finally, Mr Secretary as to the true history of Cyprus, I suppose it depends on whether you believe the rewritten propaganda version from Ankara or the truth as told by Greek and Turkish speaking Cypriots !

TFRsecretary (Ralph Kratzer)1-Porträt-Ralph sml

Lyndsay, the article I published could not only be read in the Turkish press, but in many other publications Europe-wide. Are they all victims of the propaganda from Ankara? And the introduction is, as I wrote, my personal opinion. And as it seems not only MY opinion!

Ismail Veli

Jim Kounnas is well known for his bias nationalist one sided views. Perhaps he can explain how the 85 murdered victims of Tohni in 1974 (a few miles from Limasol) and the village of Vroisha near the Ismail VeliTroodos mountains in 1964 was burned to the ground while under the protection of the ROC. These are just 2 examples. Are they not entitled to compensation. Oops sorry he will tell us the TCs suffering was ”all self inflicted”. Would it not be more appropriate to acknowledge that all sides have suffered in the madness that started with the desire for Enosis? Is it not time to acknowledge the madness that people like Jim Kounas persist on. It seems that Greek propaganda is gospel while others peoples suffering is played down. It seems that while the EU plays up to a negotiated settlement their courts prefer to throw a heap full of spanners into the works. Perhaps Mr Kounnas is one of those who actually thrive on constant enmity and perpetual conflict? Carry on mate, sadly its the people of your mind set that ensure the perpetual conflict. While on the one hand he supports the decisions of the EU in relation to the Cyprus problem, I have no doubt that he is the first to complain the treatment of Cyprus and Greece during the economic mess that their respective governments have inflicted on their people

Jim Kounnas

Ralph Kratzner made several statements. They remain unanswered. What is the source that Jim Kounnasthousands of TCs were killed by the GCs PRIOR to 1974 as he states and all the TCs who LOST property. At least show some integrity and answer the questions instead of attacking me and accusing me of being a “nationalist” which I am not.

TFRsecretary (Ralph Kratzer)

OK, Mr. Kounnas! Just have a look eg at the following publications: The Cyprus Question by Michael Stephen, M.P. or The Genocide Files by Harry Scott Gibbons (a British journalist) or Gegner für immer? 1-Porträt-Ralph sml(Opponents forever?) by Peter J. Albrecht (a German book author). All three of them are neither GC´s, TC´s, nor Greeks or Turks. The books are not propaganda, they simply tell the truth. Two of the books contain photo material from these days. Do you want to tell us this would all be fakes??? Come on, be serious! The rest of your questions are answered by Ismail Veli´s last comment (who has profound knowledge of the Cypriot history!)

David Waters

Given that a negotiated settlement is allegedly imminent this ruling must have been published to totally derail the process. I continue to be amazed at how the world sees the Cyprus situation i.e. one of the GC portraying at every opportunity at every and any meeting that they are the innocent party. The problem is that too many TC’s over the years have assumed that the UN et al would see through all of this propaganda and not protested strongly enough.

The one thing I fail to understand is that Cyprus was supposed to be protected by SIX signatories to a Guarantee. Turkey was the only country prepared to stand by that agreement to protect a group who were being systematically destroyed. I believe that all the signatory countries must stand up and be counted against this judgement. If I were the Turkish government I would tell the court where to place their judgement.

Jim Kounnas

Mr Pearce, Rauf Denktash is on record in a BBC interview that the first bomb placed outside the Turkish Information Office in Nicosia in 1958 was placed by a friend of his and the act pinned on tJim Kounnashe GCs in order to “raise the tension between the TCs and GCs”. The record also shows that the mosques in Cyprus were bombed by the Turkish air force for the same purpose. Next you’re going to tell us that the Ukraine is getting what it deserves when it’s a well known fact that Russian masked militants have been agitating the Russian people to split from the rest of the Ukraine. This is a Cyprus repeat. I know of Turkish Cypriots whose fathers were FORCED to use their fishing boats in Kyrenia to smuggle arms into Cyprus and those who refused were murdered by the mainland Turks. Turkey ordered that the Nicosia-Limassol road at Tochni be cut off with road blocks and kept cutting the telephone lines to disrupt communications. In fact it’s a well known fact that Turkey sent militia from Turkey to Tochni to try to organise the TCs to create an enclave in the area because the TCs refused to do it. I’m still interested in Mr Kratzer’s sources. By all means take your time

TFRsecretary (Ralph Kratzer)1-Porträt-Ralph sml

Just read my answer above!

Ismail Veli

Lyndsay you claim that all TCs can return to their properties in the south. Which ones??? many Turkish villages have been turned to rubble. Airports, power stations and roads, car parks have been built by the GC authorities on most of them, and the Greek Cypriot authorities have stated many times that the Turkish homes can only be returned on 2 conditions. 1/. they need to go and live back in the south. 2/. They have toIsmail Veli wait for a settlement. In addition to all that can you please tell us why one hundred thousand properties in the south have not been given title deeds to the people who have bought them since 1974? Why have the Greek side refused to set up a immovable property compensation court similar to the one in the North where many GCs have in fact sought and received compensation??. Its time people stopped looking at the problem from their own blinkered eyes and see the situation as it really is, or this mess which was started with the dream of Enosis will continue to haunt all Cypriots regardless of their ethnicity. One last thing has Mr Kounnas or Liyndsay ever bothered to go and pay a visit to the Turkish Cypriot Martyrs office where over 2000 precise details, photos and family information on the victims are given. Its only a walk away from the green line. They may be surprised at how well recorded the fate of the victims are kept. Or perhaps they are too nervous to learn that the propaganda over the last 50 years by the Greek authorities and media has been a lot of hogwash

Ergin Balli

Folks your are confusing the ECHR with the EU and the ECJ. They are not the same jurisdiction – same difference I hear you cry, but I thought that I should just inform the debate. Good luck Mr Kounnas with your misguided and incorrect views – you are part of the problem not a solution, which is what I think you want.

Jim Kounnas

It seems that one of my posts on Tochni has not been posted by your moderators. Nevertheless, Jim Kounnasthe fact is Turkey has finally been found guilty by the ECHR of it’s invasion and continuing occupation of Cyprus. It is not me that says it. For your information Ergin Balli I am a refugee from Famagusta and I DEMAND the unconditional withdrawal of the Turkish thieves and cowards from my properties. Turkey’s land grab in Cyprus will not succeed and they can use whatever excuses they come up with albeit the “protection” of the TCs.

TFRsecretary (Ralph Kratzer)1-Porträt-Ralph sml

Well, now your opinion gets a face!

Ismail Veli

”In fact it’s a well known fact that Turkey sent militia from Turkey to Tochni to try to organise the TCs” Mr Kounnas this is an extraordinary statement born of ignorance. Please tell us where you Ismail Veligot this “well known fact”.? My wife’s family are from Tochni and the missing persons committee has finally found the 85 victims who were rounded up in 1974 and taken to 2 separate locations and butchered. This act was assisted by many of their neighbours led by a Mr Andricos Melanie his cousin and a few others. You demand justice. So do all the victims of the tragedy which you seem to thrive on.

Ismail Veli

Mr Kounnas in ref to your roadblock story you are confusing the Tochni massacre of 1974 with Kophinou 1967. Again you are excusing the massacre of innocent Turkish civilians by Greek military forces and passing the buck onto Turkey. Perhaps the fact that the Markos Drakos statue was blown up in 1963 and blamed on the Turks has escaped your attention. Please check Cyprus mail articles on that. You mention about arms Ismail Velicoming into Cyprus from Turkey. That’s true. But what about the 10.000 mainland Greek troops sent to Cyprus in 1964 and culminating in the 1967 fiasco at Kophinou which you so eagerly blame the Turks for with a silly excuse about a roadblock. Havre you looked at the details of the casualties of that event who were all civilians, including people in their 80s?? You are not suggesting that old age pensioners were involved I hope. Perhaps the Greek Church holding Enosis plebiscites in 1921, 1930, 1950 and EOKA’s murder of hundreds of its own peoples has also escaped your attention. Why were these murderers allowed to run Cyprus politics and then awarded with important positions. Yorgacis, Sampson and Papadopoulos comes to mind. Are you seriously suggesting that the TCs should have just stood by and not try to defend themselves with what ever means or support they could get??? The international media of the 1960s is full of graphic details of the events. Its time you got off your hobby horse of Turk bashing and done your homework. While we are at it perhaps the hundreds of Greek victims families during the coup should be compensated by Greece. Perhaps on that we can agree.

Jim Kounnas

I have had these lines of argument countless times with Turkish Invasion sympathisers on the net. It is pointless. If the Turkish Cypriots haven’t understood they have been used as pawns by Turkey in order to retake CyJim Kounnasprus, we have nothing further to discuss. Your little “history lesson” above is superficial and taken out of context. It seems TCs have amnesia of British Colonial rule and how the local population was abused financially ever since 1878 with people not being able to make ends meet nor were Cypriots allowed to export their produce except to the UK for pittance. My grandfather who worked in the mines of Skouriotissa couldn’t even afford to buy a pair of shoes and walked barefoot everyday for several miles to and from the mines. I think Union with Greece did cross their minds on several occasions. In closing, it is unfortunate that the TCs are doomed to extinction as predetermined by Turkey who is systematically replacing them with mainland Turkish settlers.

TFRsecretary (Ralph Kratzer)

Thank you, Mr. Kounnas for this comment. In a certain way I can even understand and accept your opi1-Porträt-Ralph smlnion. But don´t you think, in those days not only your grandfather suffered, but the major part of the entire Cypriot population. Against this background, I can partially even understand the idea of ​​ENOSIS among the GCs, but not the way how it was enforced by the EOKA. The attacks on the Turkish-speaking minority of Cypriots in the 1950s, 1960s and early 1970s is inexcusable. Nor the fact that the GCs represent themselves since 1974 as the sole victims of the Cyprus conflict and that a part of them is not ready to date to recognize the TCs as part of the total Cypriot population with equal rights.

Ismail Veli

Unable to answer the serious historical mistakes Mr Kounnas has made it seems he has chosen to coIsmail Velimpletely change the essence of his argument., and changed the argument. As for amnesia on British rule it was not the TCs who chose to have our Island join Greece which would in effect have meant that Cyprus would have never become an independent country. The past plebiscites for Enosis and constant demands to the British in that respect is not an illusion but was for many Turkish Cypriots a reality. Is it not best to learn from past mistakes and agree that ALL CYPRIOTS have been losers instead of constantly Turk bashing which has led to the massive distrust and lack of confidence in each other. If and when everyone accepts those mistakes then we can finally put the past behind us.

Ismail Veli

Mr Kounnas states ”It seems TCs have amnesia of British Colonial rule and how the local population was abused” It seems you are using this argument to justify the desire for Enosis with Greece. Strangely when the last Enosis plebiscite took place in 1950 Greece had just come out of a savage civil war Ismail Veliwhich cost 150.000 lives. Is this the salvation you was looking for?. What a joke. The British ‘abused Cyprus’, The ‘Ottomans persecuted the Cypriots’. The Venetians brought feudalism yawn yawn. It seems everyone in history abused the ‘poor old Cypriots’. 3 years of independence and the desire for Enosis and only Enosis was the goal. Are you sure it was the TCs who were the ‘pawns’? If the GCs were not pawns, then you deliberately set out to destroy the independence you constantly argue for. If the GCs dream turned into a nightmare and dragged the whole of the Island into the abyss then its time to reverse the way of thinking. Sadly if Mr Kounnas remarks are anything to go by we still have along way to go.

Kyreniacommentator (Chris Elliott)

Reading the various comments made on this article it is sad to see that the Truth of the Cyprus issue has been hidden away since 1974 but this is now being corrected by other advisory comments that have beenChris photo 2 3 made above and tell the truth as it happened.

For those New readers to cyprusscene.com they will find we have a Portfolio which contains Project pages listing many themed articles and of the Cyprus Issue, please refer to “Cyprus Strife” and “Cyprus – The Issue as it Developed” where you will find all of those hidden facts and we will be adding more in the future..

Some readers may like a quick link to learn some important facts and these can be read by clicking on the links below.

Cyprus – The human cost of the tragedy

Cyprus Hidden History – Did the Greeks offer to partition Cyprus?

12 replies »

  1. Why doesnt Jim apply to the IPC? There’s a route available but they just don’t want to take it because they are too damn greedy

  2. I agree with Maria. People can claim compensation from the IPC in the North which was set up after pressure from the EU. So why have not the Greek side set up a court for Turkish Cypriots to apply and gain some compensation?? It seems propaganda is preferable to a solution.

  3. Dear ismailveli, Perhaps not as well known as it deserves to be… there was a case brought against CY by some who own property in the Free Areas and who are now associated with the Occupied Areas.
    It was the matter of Kazali and others v CY Case No 49247/08
    The ECHR found No Violations against CY and declared the case inadmissible.
    The ECHR concluded …
    That the courts of the Republic provided adequate redress and that these local remedies had not been exhausted and went on to say…

    “III. OTHER ALLEGED VIOLATIONS OF THE CONVENTION

    154. Some of the applicants made a number of other complaints, including complaints directed against Greece and the United Kingdom (see paragraphs 103-106 above).
    155. In the light of all the material in its possession, and in so far as the matters complained of are within its competence, the Court finds no appearance of a violation of the rights and freedoms set out in the Convention or its Protocols arising from these complaints.
    For these reasons, the Court unanimously
    Decides to join the applications;
    Declares the applications inadmissible. …” (thanks to Bill Cobbett for the reference)

    Turkish Cypriots can therefore apply to a Cypriot Court for redress if they feel this is necessary.

    Maria, how about this: I’ll come round and steal your car then I’ll call you and offer to buy it off you OK?.

  4. Mr Kounnas

    I find it extraordinary that you completely ignore my question on the allegations and excuse you gave for the massacre of 85 civilians in Tohni who were under the jurisdiction of the GC authorities. Then have the audacity to claim TCs have legal recourse to claim their back properties.

    Just one example, If that’s the case why has the Larnaca airport not been returned to its TC owners?

    Just a few village examples for you to explain have you been to Ayios Sozomenos, Antroliku (Paphos), Vroisha to see if there are any houses remaining for TCs to reclaim. I guess once homes disappear from the face of the earth then your claim ”no appearance of a violation of the rights and freedoms” are true because nothing seems to remain to claim back. Sadly your one sided mentality is at the root of the 60 year old problem which seems to have become insoluble to your great delight.

    For reference to my reference to lost property please click here

    If and when the problems of our Island are ever solved I have no doubt you will be in a state of perpetual mourning.

  5. I have read the comment addressed to Ismail Veli.

    Mr. Kounnas does not stop arguing over the question of land ownership, because he will always insist on his stalled opinions. I think he has, like many others in South Cyprus in the past and to date, the problem that the GC´s consider themselves to be the sole owners of the entire island. The TC’s were and are viewed by these people as second class citizens and to be used best as docile peasants without own rights and claims.

    So, my opinion is: Turkey hasn´t stolen their land because the GC´s never had been owners of the whole of Cyprus, as they believe and want to make the rest of the world believe. Turkey just set up a status quo in 1974 to bring peace to the island and stop further mutual massacres. and this act was, as we all know, not only their right but their duty as one of the protecting powers.

    In Germany where, in the decades after the second world war, there were similar reactions of people who had been expelled from former German territories, since then belonging to Russia, Poland, the Baltic States and the Czech Republic: “We want to have back our land and property! These states have stolen it from us!”

    And guess what these states have responded? “My dear Germans! You have started the war and you have lost it in the end. That’s just the price you had to pay for it! But now let’s be friends and good neighbours and look to the future together!”

    I know, this comparison is rather inappropriate, as the second world war cannot be compared with the incidents in Cyprus.

    But on one point there are parallels. Germany has learned from its history and one day finally accepted the truth and status quo and is now successfully and peacefully working together with its neighbours.

    Perhaps things like this could also give a little intellectual impetus to our GC friends.

  6. The massacre of unarmed civilians irrespective of the circumstances is a reprehensible and criminal act and cannot be excused. In regards to Cyprus, the culprit is Turkish policy which culminated in their criminal and illegal actions of 1974. No massacres ( on both sides) would have occurred in Cyprus had Turkey not invaded the island. Mr Veli, do you posses an ROC passport? As do 90,000 Turkish Cypriots? Why is it that the passport of the ROC is good enough for our Turkish speaking Cypriot compatriots and not the Courts for redress? Or is it because we want to have our cake and eat it too ( unhindered European travel, European education for our children, free medical care in Europe, the right to settlement and work anywhere in the EU) and yet they wish to deny these fundamental human rights to other Cypriots in their own country. Or is it (as a good friend of mine says) the Turkish Cypriots demand to keep what resources were taken by force and the remaining 800,000 Cypriots should share with them what is left?

    When the Nazis retreated from Prague, the Czechs murdered thousands of civilians by throwing the German Czechs over the bridge into the water as they tried to escape. If you wish to live in the past Mr Veli in order to justify a state of affairs, in the case of Cyprus, the illegal Turkish occupation, then keep supporting the Turkish position at the expense of the Cypriot population.

    Mr Kratzer, I suggest you study International Law. Disputes are settled between states by Treaty as was the case post WW2 which is what happened in Europe. Turkey agreed in July 1923 by signing the Treaty of Lausanne that it had no claims over Cyprus. As far as I am aware the Treaty is still valid. Look it up.

    And because I know that you will ( both of you) jump on the “Treaty of Guarantee bandwagon”, Turkey had no right whatsoever to launch it’s operations in Cyprus as there was NO violation of the Treaty on the part of the ROC ( Article 1) because the ROC did not act in anyway internally for Union with Greece, this was the action of the Greek Junta. Turkey is therefore in continuous violation of the Treaty as a whole ( Articles 2,3,4). I also suggest you read the Turkish position on page 6 , paragraph 12 of the in the Turkish Government’s communique found in the European Commission of Human Rights adopted 10th July, 1976 Applications Numbers 6780/74 and 6950/75 which states that Turkey’s “intention” was to re-establish the state of affairs in Cyprus PRIOR to the coup of the 15th July 1974 being the territorial integrity and sovereignty of the Republic of Cyprus.

    Turkey’s action from the outset, that is, from the 20th July, 1974 is therefore an invasion and continuing occupation because the result is anything but was is stated in the Treaty of Guarantee. This is why the ECHR ruled against Turkey albeit 40 years later and that the passing of time has not absolved Turkey from her criminal actions.

  7. Mr Kounnas At least we agree on the fact that the murder of unarmed civilians is a ”criminal act and cannot be excused”. Then he spoils it by stating that the only reason there were massacres is because of ”Turkey’s criminal and illegal actions of 1974”. I do admire your knowledge of Nazi actions in WW2 but sadly yet again your lack of knowledge or accepting the conditions of the TCs in the 1960s is yet again proven to be dishonest. Now that we have established the murder of civilians to be a ”criminal act” then perhaps you can explain why TC patients in the Nicosia general hospital in Dec 1963 were butchered.

    One of which was my cousin Mehmet Veli working as a male nurse. The civilains of Ayios Vasiliyos murdered and put in a mass grave in Dec 1963 is also well recorded as they were exhumed by the Red cross.Have any murderers been brought to trail by the ROC who in your opinion are the upholders on international law??

    Muruvvet Nihat Ilhan and her 3 children slaughterd by Greek Cypriots in the Kumsal district of Nicosia

    In addition by the middle of 1964 10.000 mainland Greek troops by invitation of Makarios were based in Cyprus to continue the policy of Enosis.

    When you talk about violations of International law you should stop skipping over the years and pages with selective rules while ignoring the circumstances that led to the tragedy of 1974.

    You claim the ROC was not responsible for the Greek Junta takeover of 1974. WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH it was Makarios who invited the Greek army into Cyprus to help implement Enosis which would eliminate Cyprus as being an independent state. and then you expect the TCs to rejoice being 2nd class citizens.

    Turkish Cypriot grief

    Your allegation of 90.000 TCs acquiring ROC passports will be taken at face value as this is something I do not have figures for. But I do find the propaganda changes from day to day. The GC Authorities often claim there are only 60-70.000 TCs left in Cyprus, and as you wrote yourself they are disappearing due to Turkish settlement. There are many TCs in Cyprus who have not even bothered to travel to the south so can we assume that at least a certain percentage have no ROC passports. So where did the 90.000 come from?

    Surely you don’t believe that the TCs who live abroad and like myself only have British Passports or a passport of their country of residence go to Cyprus, acquire passports then travel to the south to collect benefits. If you are not happy with some TCs working, collecting pensions, or receiving medical care then it’s up to the ROC to refuse giving ”90.000” passports to what you consider to be leeches having their cake and eating it. But alas what will that do to your propaganda machine “All Cypriots are one and equal”,.

    So which figure is correct the 90.00 passport holders or only 60-70.000 TCs remaining in Cyprus???

    Now to International law. Have you seen the Athens Court case No; 2658/79 The Appeal Court’s decision reached on 21/03.1979 that declared the “Cyprus constitution was disregarded by Greek officers and Nicos Sampson was placed as Head of State”.

    Because of the created circumstances ,Turkey on the other hand intervened in Cyprus using her legal right.”

    To sum it all up you don’t mind the GCs flaunting international law by fighting for Enosis, you care less about international law that ignores the Cyprus constitution being based on a partnership basis, then attempt to prove your respect for International law “WHEN & ONLY WHEN IT SUITS YOUR PURPOSE”.

    If the GCs are not happy with the status Quo then why have they rejected 15 out of 16 agreements put on the table. Not my claim its that of Ex Cypriot FM Mr Nicos Rolandis

  8. Hi Jim

    Sorry to butt in like this but I thought there was a coup on the island in 1974, led by Nicos Samson against Archbishop Makarios. I may well be mistaken but did that not mean a “Civil” war between Greek Cypriot and ……………Greek Cypriot? Evidently there may have been a bit of slaughter going on before Turkish troops landed

  9. Very good point Martin, its obviously escaped the attention of Mr Kounnas and Co that there were many recorded evidence by the International media that hundreds of GCs were murdered by their own National Guard and their friends, the Greek Army.

    I wonder why the ROC has never brought Greece to the International courts to claim compensation for those victims. Or is it a taboo subject?????????

  10. This is for the benefit of our friend Jim Kounnas who has been asking for a confirmation that Greek Cypriots had been killing Turkish Cypriots on the island .
    I am sending the link to a telephone conversation between the President Lyndon B Johnson of USA at the time Greek Cypriots were killing Turkish Cypriots for just being Turks , and previous President Truman . Lyndon Johnson is asking Truman to go and represent USA , in the funeral of Greece’s king and he explains the situation in Cyprus to him , by using the words ” GREEKS ARE KILLING TURKS ” ” AND TURKS ARE THREATINING TO …” ” WE ARE TELLING THE GREEKS TO QUIT KILLING TURKS AND TELLING TURKEY…” .
    Who better to confirm the indiscriminate killings of Turkish Cypriots than the President of USA , who has the reports of the biggest and best intelligence service in the world in front of him . I have been accused of producing this recording by some Greek Cypriots before , hence I will tell all that the original is in the Lyndon B Johnson Library in USA …
    <a href="[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kXC7QjJTkkY?feature=player_embedded&w=640&h=360%5D” title=”Johnson Says Greeks Killing Turks” target=”_blank”>

  11. Unfortunately it is the reality that people of a far right wing and fascist persuasion still exist, g grieves n samson and makarios, are still heralded as heros to many greeks and greek cypriots despite failing miserably in there attempts to wipe out Turkish Cypriots off the Island of Cyprus, why don’t the greeks and greek cypriots blame them for their losses?

    Not surprisingly these extremists with warped views on reality and scant regard for innocent people being butchered simply for having a different ethnic origin, religion, creed or colour blame everyone else but fail to look in the mirror and reflect on their own actions.

    More importantly, I feel the people of the TRNC need to feel secure and safe, but if greek cypriots are going to just blatantly lie and continue to deny what really happened and continue to blame everyone else but their own then we may as well pack up and go home and just continue the way it is.

    There are many impartial books and articles written about the savagery in which greek and greek cypriots intent on making Cyprus a island exclusively run by greeks for greeks and only greeks, David Matthews ‘The Cyprus tapes’ is factual and begins in an impartial way, though when Mr Matthews started asking questions that made the greeks, greek cypriots despise him then he had the balls to question the uk and the un’s role.

    These rejections of the reality and truth of what really happened comes from the very people that now want the island reunited but only on their terms, yet the Turkish community and politicians still discuss the options to at least look at the possibility of reunification, and still they whinge and moan, what illegality happened, happened to the Turkish Cypriot community, what ever injustice happened to the innocent men, women and children happened to the Turkish Cypriot community, yes off course the greek cypriots lost out too, but what was the aim, clearly without a shadow of a doubt they were the aggressors clearly without a shadow of a doubt the Turkish Cypriots and Turkish soldiers were trying put a barrier between themselves to protect themselves, their families women and children.

    Turkey used it’s political rights as a Guarantor of the Island to intervene that is why they are there, and there on the Island doing a fantastic job, how many murders have there been since their arrival?